Thank you all right we're back welcome to another episode of the newly revamped pickle pod it's Pro zaynavertail what's going on and myself Tom Shields you don't have a title just Thomas Shields yeah I was thinking about that I don't know if I'm uh I'm just like a glorified commenter.

Basically glorified commenter yeah Thomas Shields that's your new intro yeah I'm like a social media commenter I just like built a blog and social media presence around it so people are forced to listen to my opinions you cram it you cram it down there throat if they don't I see you.

Everywhere on social the dink every time I'm on on the on the gram something or another is coming up part of it is like I want to separate myself from the brand but then with like a podcast like this I inevitably insert myself back into it fair Fair what'd you think of the uh the first episode.

Um well got a lot of uh got a lot of critiques on me being wrong it's like wow everybody must have been watching that waiting Checker needs to be fact checked exactly like when is Zayn gonna say something incorrect that I can comment on and like it's not enough for just one person to comment on it right it's like everybody yep so yes guys I.

Was wrong but remember remember this lesson if you aren't sure about something double down yeah because I doubled down and then you're like okay you must be right he really is but no I I wasn't apparently you said it was certainly we're talking about the um uh Ben had the chance to take Colin uh.

But chose Tyler loon and he said Colin wasn't on the board but he was okay so Colin wasn't on the board but he was I still think Ben chooses lung over Colin why um because I think they have their complimentary and in a very similar way in men's doubles where Tyler is a really.

Good right-sided player obviously as a as a lefty over there and then I think that Tyler is a Better Mix doubles player pretty much without any yeah without a doubt Better Mix doubles partner so I think he's I think fitting that team where mixed doubles is obviously half of the matches that you're gonna play I think is really.

Important and so you might sacrifice you know Tyler might be 10 worse in his role with Ben than Colin is but Tyler's might be 25 better in his mixed doubles role so I think it's still a good pick I think the obvious answer too is singles singles ability but Collins a pretty solid singles player but Tyler's like a good single so I mean you could argue.

Right yeah he's had some I mean he's had big wins over like Ben for example true true Colin's not a slouch singles player Colin Colin can play some decent singles yeah he can lift he can rip some Lefty forehands there's nothing worse I haven't played Colin in a while but there's nothing nothing worse before yeah nothing worse.

Than hitting it over to his backhand and the guy just takes one hand off and rips a lefty forehand yeah he does that stuff yeah he doesn't dare do it with Ben but he does it in singles yeah um and one of the other comments we got was that this is like a Star Wars background some people didn't like that uh sort of deal with it as my response.

To that one fair I was I think we should turn these lights red because they were green last they're green last time yeah I think we should go I think we should go red for sure um I want to shout out to okay our top commenters on YouTube were Grant Harris sorry not sorry pickleball and Chad I'm gonna mess this up look look at us.

I read it as lactate well he's not our top commenter anymore sorry Chad uh so we see you thank you keep keep commenting we want to hear from you guys they had let me know what else I'm wrong about yeah here's our agreement with the with the listeners if you're on Spotify or apple podcast leave a review.

Subscribe follow if you're on YouTube add a comment subscribe to the YouTube channel uh we appreciate it definitely definitely um and also so here we'll do this I'm giving this one to you but this is like a here we'll open it up to our.

We're gonna pick one person who leaves a review and adds a comment and I'm gonna send him one of these so this is actually like a pretty nice little dink pullover let's see make sure we get it in the camera look at that this one's a medium because you're medium that one's for you I'll grow into.

It now here's the thing Chris we're gonna go back to the that other podcast you can throw that on floor you don't have to do anything he he sent me one of these and it smelled like vinegar I'm not even kidding it smells like vinegar this is the test smells delightful it I wouldn't say delightful but it doesn't smell like.

Vinegar so get your get your dink pull over that doesn't smell like vinegar do whatever he said I already forgot what he said you had to do yeah comment uh we're gonna choose yeah so one person who comments and you got to be subscribed uh and or you can leave a review on Spotify I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with this if.

You comment on the YouTube channel and you leave a review on Apple pods or Spotify I'll just go and check and I'll just choose somebody to uh send this poll over to you can't buy them you can't buy them they're not out there they're not available um okay so we talked about a like number of what I would call.

Uh inconsistencies last episode but I want to like make this section of the podcast called loopholes okay so kind of like you're talking to the right guy yeah gaps in the rules uh where you can kind of exploit those for an advantage and are things that I would assume are going to be addressed down the road but.

Haven't yet been addressed and uh so people are taking advantage of my favorite person who uh likes to point these out I mean you're you've you've done it on the on the uh Grand uh stage and actually like you know made it a huge part of your game with the Zayn saw what was your favorite name for that sir by the way there were a lot of them I.

Liked the Zane sauce because the chainsaw I think sounds great but then you know given some some credit to me was pretty cool so I liked the I liked the Zayn saw what else did you what else even was there it feels like so long ago well there was a chainsaw there was the Zayn saw uh people just called it like the spins the spins I feel like there.

Were a bunch of other names and I had like a whole list at one point but I don't know the one that really stuck out to me is the best one a great opinion agreed R.I.P um but maybe they'll bring it back one of my favorite people who likes to exploit like find these little inconsistencies and exploit the mache Underwood and he makes videos about them.

So one of the ones he did recently did you see this video where it's like hand is part of the paddle right so everybody's been in a in a match where it's like a quick exchange and uh somebody hits the ball with like their hand that's holding the grip and they're like ah hands part of the paddle plays play goes on.

Shea is doing this thing where he's literally like with the hand that holds the paddle like using his fingers to just hit the ball with his hand and like manipulating the the spin in the direction of the ball uh what do you what do you think about that I think there were some interesting like comments on why that wouldn't be legal.

But as far as I can tell technically it would be legal for you to just like use your hand to smack the ball mid play as long as it's still sort of attached to the paddle right so it has to be the hand has to be touching the paddle yep so right hand touching right touching the paddle and you're gonna hit with your right hand.

Yep I I don't see why not I think it gets dicey where you are having multiple points of contact with the ball right the same way that it could be a a carry if you were to just tap the ball to yourself and then hit it over that's pretty common if you ever try to just hit a ball with your hand it's.

Going to hit your palm and then it might roll up your fingers and sort of shoot over towards the opponent so however I actually don't know the rule on what a carry so it says carry hitting the ball in such a way that it does not bounce away from the paddle but is carried along on the face of the paddle but isn't that.

It's just your hand it doesn't even touch the battle so this wouldn't apply this definition hand is part of the paddle so I think that it would apply but it says paddle it says the face of the paddle face of the paddle I don't know I think that that's just it I I would guess that's just an incorrect.

Wordage like used because which isn't uncommon Yeah well yeah but um a carry like you can hit the ball multiple times yeah right and it can still be considered legal I don't know what the actual rule is but the way I see it kind of interpreted by referees is almost.

A level of intent right like does it look like this person is trying to hit into different shots or does it look like it just got caught on the paddle face and it wasn't part of their intent right and so if that's if that's the if that's going to apply then to hitting it with your hand.

A referee might say yeah it kind of looked like they were trying to to do it in that way it wasn't just an accident that happened right but again that's I don't think that's anywhere in the rule book I don't know maybe maybe I should have read the rules again before this yeah it comes down yeah so it comes down to ref's.

Discretion right like what do they interpret as what you're trying to do yeah but I think if you hit it clean like if you have hit it with your hand let's see toss the video on if you guys aren't already but go to Shea Underwood's Instagram it's like the I think he pinned it to the top of his profile it's.

Kind of recent so if I hit it let's say with my fingers right here sticking off the paddle and it's like a clean hit I don't have a problem with it go for it but then again here's the thing but I I think the E I think that you should be able to hit with whatever part of your body you want so I think the rules should be changed to hit however you.

Want you like kick it yeah why not you don't like it volleyball you see people like basically like slide tackle to save a ball yeah and like put it back in play why not yeah but then what if people got so good at it they just stopped using the paddle oh interesting and then you could have you could have like really gritty shoes.

So you can put a whole bunch of spin on it yeah yeah they're exactly right now we're opening a whole nother section of the the Robuck oh yeah we might have just broke pickleball I think it was already broken I wasn't gonna say it but yeah I wasn't gonna say it uh yeah okay because so and then there was did you see.

One of the recent PPA is Ryan Sherry's playing PESA and uh I think it was like match point in match ball yeah match rally did they did they on a side note did they stop saying match ball again after they caught so much crap from the memes of pickleball page I have never I had never even heard.

Them say that they they had one tournament where they were really doubling down on saying match ball okay side tangent we were watching in Mesa um we were watching won the semi-final matches or whatever we're sitting there and it's like okay it's rally scoring so is there any reason to call.

Side out because the the serve does change hands but then you're saying side out almost like every every Point essentially dad or no I'm not a I'm not a ref I I don't even know if you really need to say it in a regular game I think all the players already know if it's gonna be a side out yeah right it just becomes like.

Another reason for the ref to talk and another thing for them to like have to keep track of there you go yeah but so Ryan Sherry is playing PESA Ryan hits a passing shot pace is kind of tracking it down she's got like basically his back to the net and he Scoops the he Scoops the ball but it's like one motion and it goes back in and Ryan tries to like stop.

Play right in the middle of the point he's like no no stop stop stop so stop and then he starts appealing to the to the ref and then there's sort of this debate and then PESA kind of goes okay fine and then the match just like ends did you see that I I can't say that I did no I didn't was that last Thursday no uh I think this was maybe like two.

Ppas ago um but it it was like uh it was just like a really weird moment where I mean technically it was one motion but it came down to just the players and the ref just being like all right fine it was a weird moment I would think if PESA is in that situation ready to concede the point.

I would guess without seeing this I would guess he knew that he actually carried it yeah and he carried it intentionally yeah and again I think a lot of these things whether it's in the rules or not do come down to intent right and you can kind of see whether somebody is making multiple motions at the ball or not yeah because he like he.

Like wrapped so he like his paddle starts moving away from the net so he can wrap around the ball and then he Scoops it back and it was like it was a very weird like I had never seen it before Jamie pull that up yeah our our Jamie is Mitch let's be like Mitch Mitch put it in post yeah in post uh post put that in there.

Can we still just call him Jamie yeah all right cool yeah Mitch no offense but you're Jamie now you know actually when we said that uh that we're accepting interns how many people did you get reach out to you about that no I I didn't see anybody really did people reach out to you I had I had three or four people actually reach out to me.

About wanting to get involved in the podcast I mean I bet like in our message requests which we don't always go through there are probably some but none in the in the primary unreal um but uh yeah so um I mean maybe we're still hiring for them uh all right Shay Underwood again have.

You seen the clits where where he does the D or he does the uh like the screens right with him and his partner like coordinate uh essentially you screen the opponents from being able to see the ball and then at the last moment the guy's standing in front of his partner moves and then the guy behind him actually like makes a shot.

Yeah that's pretty epic and that's pretty uh that would be very very difficult to to deal with um now he's done some research on this hindrance although again it's it's another like intent thing this happens all the time but.

Nobody's ever trying to do it right this is the first time somebody's actually just trying to yeah because it does it does happen where like people are scrambling like in um yeah last weekend somebody hit a ball at it was either Deco or AJ and the other part like through his legs and the other person was behind him so.

Technically it would have been like a screen but it just wasn't intentional yeah that was pretty that was a pretty sweet get by AJ I know which one you're talking about this time um you know I don't know how I how I feel about it because I mean it'd be super tough to you're super.

Relatable if you pull that oh for sure but the closest thing did you know that people have been doing this before what in professional matches people were doing actual screens so Jack in the chainsaw ERA this is Jamie pull this up Brian ashworth's Facebook um uh Austin Gridley was playing with I.

Think it was Mario Barrientos at some local tournament up in the up in the pienda and Gridley had the spin surf right he was flicking it off his hands and you know there's a very obvious tell you flick it this way it goes this way like you you can tell if you can see the ball you can.

Tell where it's going however he had Mario standing in front of him while he was tossing the ball up so Mario was screening I think I did see this yeah yeah yeah so this is actually this actually happened and they didn't do anything about it they're probably like I've I don't even know what to do yeah because like.

Honestly if I was the opponent the only thing that would surprise me is when gridley's kick serve doesn't move at all that's the surprising part yeah right you think okay this is gonna do something and then it just comes straight and that's what really screws you up so let's talk about serves in general.

Because I think one of the things that's been a discrepancy lately and a lot a lot I would say in amateur play is the the serve being below the waist right like I think a lot of people point to Tyson McGuffin serve often like where he comes up on his toes when he makes contact so the ball is sometimes like right at his waist.

Essentially but he makes that upward motion and he has a great serve but a lot of people always point to that they're like this is this is illegal and I see it a lot in rack play but much much more I would say like exaggerated in Rec play and it happened so fast it's like what do you what do you even do how do you even.

Officiate that yeah I mean there's there's a lot of people that are that are borderline I mean I was watching George's serve in uh in that mixed doubles final it's pretty it's pretty high decals is obviously High I'm serving higher and higher um Tyson sorry some of Tysons are from his nipples dude I'm just gonna say it.

I'm just gonna say yeah he's serving from the tits you were you were dancing around that for a little bit there oh but but it's not always so it's kind of tough because you have to be on your toes as a as a ref to the contact point isn't always the exact same but I think all three elements of the serve rule.

Currently are very difficult to enforce even if you were able to do an instantly has to watch them all at once all at once so you need to be serving in an upwards motion at the point of contact meaning I can be swinging downwards into and then just until the point of contact and then I'm swinging up yeah so that's tough to deal with especially with.

People who are hitting slice serves the the top part of your paddle has to be below the level of your wrist right so I can't have we're bringing a paddle every time this is great yeah so if my if my paddle is is like this the top part of my paddle is above the level of my wrist this in theory should be.

Illegal really but most people are flattening it out at contact because they're coming over it most people are dropping the paddlehead down lower and brushing up so if you're getting Top Spin on the new kind of you're you're coming up and over but you come over the ball after you've made contact but okay this might lead into.

The next topic like if the paddle is has a lot of dwell time or deflection like that point of contact is either longer or shorter depending on the type of of paddle right sure but that's that's that's a much smaller that's I think we're talking about very very small fractions of a second in.

That in that case yeah um where I still think even a paddle with a with a really long dwell time you're not really the the bat the ball isn't staying on the paddle for a large portion of your swing right um so all three elements of the Serb rule are are subjective and impossible to.

You know how many times have you seen on pickleball forums somebody's like is this serve illegal and they'll send a screenshot of of the point of contact even when the ball is even when you have a picture of the point of contact you can't tell where this person's waist is you can't tell whether the paddle is moving at an upwards motion at the point.

Of contact and you can't tell where the paddle is always in relation to the to the wrist like it's it's just an impossible rule to to enforce so I think Steve parento has been a big Advocate and proponent of who's that who's Steve brento Steve perrento is kind of an OG pickleballer I think he's he lives up in in Washington.

Um area and uh it's just been again around the game for forever I think his I think his dad was actually the inventor of the first composite pickleball paddles okay and I say I think that so if you guys decide to fact check me on this please please do you can fact check this too I think the first composite paddle was.

Made out of um parts from like a Boeing airplane because he was like a airplane engineer he's not gonna fact check that one I don't know let's just make more stuff up what is true and what is false about this podcast but Steve's just a guy who's been around the sport for forever yeah and he's been.

A big advocate of the drop serve for a long time and I think he's a big reason of why the drop serve came to be part of the rules as well and then not only do referees need to enforce the three elements of the out of the air serve there are also theoretically needing to police a drop serve at the exact same.

Time when I go up to the line you don't know whether I'm going to hit an out of the air or a drop serve so I I would agree with Steve I think that I think that the out of the air serve should just be gone because when you utilize a drop serve the only thing that you a referee has to police is is your hand in a stationary position as.

You're dropping the ball right and that's easy right we can tell and then I can hit the ball however I want yeah so interesting some people have some like legit drop serves too I mean because you can there's just more room for innovation in a drop serve because you can just do more with your like swing.

Path I don't know if that's necessarily the case I don't I don't actually see us any advantage in a drop serve right now you can you can still achieve slice and side spin when serving out of the air I.

Don't think that the advantage of a drop serve is I don't I don't think there's much advantage of a drop serve over and out of the air serve I don't think you can get a tremendous amount more spin on a drop serve than a than out of the air and also if you're utilizing a drop.

Serve the ball is going to bounce way lower too you're gonna be you're going to be making contact far lower than Tyson's nipples so I think that that's you know once we said goodbye to the chainsaw now I'm all in on on drop serve only yeah you should uh I feel like if you just spent uh a week just trying to hit the most.

Wicked drop serve you'd figure something out I I messed around with the drop serves for sure like but then again we can't even use them at the at the PPA really we can't no hmm I wonder why that's just kind of one of those things like they made the rule a while back and.

I think that there is there's been it's worth noting too that sometimes there's differences in amateur versus Pro rules right like oh for sure I think that would be an example of one because in an amateur PPI you can use the drop serve correct yep yep there's rumored.

Room for abuse of the drop serve so from from what I understand okay the rule is and maybe again maybe I'm just bsing here but the rule is vague enough where you could drop the serve drop the ball cake it up to yourself and then hit it from your forehead or your head or something like that's actually been something to.

Get like physically kick it with your foot yeah kick it up because it says basically the rule is like once you drop the serve it's like anything goes dude and it just had it's been actually debated in some ref circles and I've had some conversations with some refs where it's like yeah there's actually you really could abuse this rule right and.

The now I'm sure at that point you know Mark Pfeiffer Don Stanley or somebody or another is gonna be like okay just don't do that yeah just stop guys please um but at least the way it's written there is potential for uh for abuse and I don't know whether you would actually get away with it or not I've never.

Actually tried it but um yeah yeah so anyway server rules broken let's fix it again I think they're just safe to say like there needs to this rulebook is very much uh a work in progress um and uh we'll continue to figure out all.

The ways you can exploit it yeah let's get honestly we need some I need like a lawyer to go through this form yeah and be like okay well there's some it's all about the language and exactly how you're phrasing things for sure uh a lot of room for interpretation right now Matt right now go we'll go carve through.

It it's your boy it's my boy um okay so we touched on it a little bit but I think the Hot Topic and we're gonna put something out tomorrow on it we're gonna include something in the newsletter and then we're gonna put a Blog out uh but dwell time all of a sudden or deflection because we talked about it.

Last week and you I basically had never heard of it you knew what it was you were kind of explaining it and then very timely you know did you see annalize tweet after she played a match and I don't know who she was playing against I don't know what the paddle was that that person was using but you know she she won the match.

Uh she tends to do um but then she tweeted out first paddles were illegally having too much grit now they're illegally having too much deflection which is the same thing as dwell time paddle testing needs to be implemented with not just grit but deflection as well not necessarily the same thing from what.

I understand deflection is basically just how quickly the ball comes off the paddle dwell time is how long the ball stays on the face of the paddle okay and there but he would correlate it yeah because they're a product of the same thing essentially like you would in order to test either of those things you would be testing with this compression.

Test that USA it's we're gonna put out a Blog use a look at a picture Jamie put it in the picture um it's like an industrial sized drill to test deflection of a paddle and it's all based on like applying weight and seeing what like the um compression level is yeah it's uh I don't know how we're.

Going to be able to test all these different things yeah right especially on site right on-site and actually now there's there's timing issues too so what is stopping a company from making a paddle that passes right it can legitimately pass yeah but.

If we're smart why don't we make a paddle that deteriorates effectively yep right so a lot of them do yeah it deteriorates in a way that actually makes its playability better yeah and so it passes and then you know even if USA pickleball does the same process they did at Nationals where you have to have a.

Sticker at the beginning of the tournament to say hey this paddle has been tested well now I could go home and I could beat my paddle with a hammer if that's what it takes or put in the microwave or whatever whatever he whatever it does to make this paddle better and don't put your battles in the.

Microwave please if you do we don't encourage it if you do something on Instagram tag us on Instagram for sure you definitely want to see it but uh we are not encouraging it yeah so now it's almost like you need to be able to do all of these tests immediately after a match is completed.

Or at least randomly like I think that random testing you have enough of a deterrent yeah right should be enough of a deterrent yeah but we're testing a lot of things now we're testing I don't think we're testing hardly anything effectively enough yet even our I still think that the friction.

The the whatever RZ the the surface roughness is still an issue I still don't think that you can say that you're going to test it but I still don't think that the test is effective well one of the things that uh so and I don't know if they're so at Pro pickleball on Instagram I think they're I think whoever runs that is pretty affiliated.

With USA pickleball I think it's Carl Carl Schmidt's runs Pro pickleball and I think now Carl is is I don't know what exactly what his title is but he's very involved in the um paddle compliance stuff well he's using we he's saying we as if he's associated with with USA pickleball but he he is he is to your point there still isn't.

Effective testing for surface roughness and there isn't effective testing for uh dwell time particularly not on site right because you need this like big like massive device the surface roughness is the stare at test right now but he commented on a clip of you and I talking about dwell time the other week he said we'll be upgrading to an optical.

Scanning platform for surface features as reported last year replacing the Starrett also implementing a portable tensile tester for deflection testing at pro events all paddles are tested for deflection roughness cof I don't know what that is coefficient of friction.

Pretty good if that's maybe that's good for you I like to think that that's a good good guess Deering certification but still like during certification would be like when you get that usapa stamp and as we just said dwell time increases as the paddle is used right so that's still it couldn't address that the compliance continues the compliance.

Program has been made more robust to address the flood of new paddles uh so it sounds like they're taking steps to like improve both of those but in doing so aren't they just admitting that the tests right now are like completely fallible I don't know let's get them on here that could be an interesting uh interesting.

Conversation yeah well I sent him an email so hopefully they uh they get back yeah that'd be that'd be good because uh I think we could have an interesting conversation with them yeah um and so with dwell time so okay yeah so it increases with paddle usage at least that's what a lot of people are saying.

Right like as the paddle gets worn in um the paddle face isn't as rigid and uh dwell time and then I guess deflection um in increases that's it it really kind of depends on the on the paddle and on the materials um I don't think that that's something that we can say across the board is true some paddles go dead the longer you hit.

With them yeah some paddles that's for sure some paddles nobody talks about that by the way so many battles go dead most of them yeah almost almost all of them at this point yeah and a lot of people like can't tell when their paddle goes so like my Dad I'm not going to put this brand on blast but he swears by this brand.

And uh so I'm always like give me your paddle I'm gonna play with it and tell you if it's dead or not because he needs to change his paddles way more uh than than he is and if you don't know how to feel for that like you could be playing with a dead paddle could be like seriously affecting your game for sure what's your what's your test.

For a dead paddle I just swing and hit with it I mean like you can just you can just tell you personally there you go guys if you have a dead paddle you can just tell there we go science yeah the pickle pod all about science here all about data my tests are shake it if there's a rattle that means something's come loose in the honeycomb.

And one piece of your honeycomb is broken means that the rest of your honeycomb is probably breaking down and also if your Edge guard is coming loose you can just super glue it and you need to super glue it because if your Edge guard is coming loose it really throws off your your entire paddle um it.

If you hit anywhere close to that edge guard when you're when your Edge guard is loose it's going to give you a dead response but you really can legitimately fix it just by putting a little bit of super glue back on there there you go here first I just saved you probably a hundred bucks at least I guess selkirks aren't having that.

Problem with that without the edge guard though some of them have the edge guard but well and we're yeah we're just seeing like more and more paddles without him um but another thing with so maybe this is more deflection related well it would be dwell time too uh but it changes the.

Sound that the the ball makes when it makes contact with the paddle which apparently according to Rob nunnery players rely on sound and quick exchanges and that changes basically how you interpret where the ball is going to go for sure actually that's a that's a really important.

Um observation and it is it is true because you can't really see in real time where the ball is hitting on the paddle but you can hear whether or not it sounds clean yeah right right and so some of these paddles that are deteriorating effectively they sound really Hollow they sound louder they sound.

Kind of like a gearbox right you know how a couple years ago gearbox had a really distinct sound compared to any other paddle because a lot of their paddles it just seemed like it was just like a plank like a plague of wood basically like it like it didn't have a ton of like interior.

Chair again more science but but I'm just saying the sound is different from any other paddle like these these Juiced up paddles sound a little bit more Hollow they sound a little louder and and when you hit it off center it doesn't give you that same shanky sound.

So I think Rob's I don't think Rob's wrong there and that that sound kind of uh it kind of hides potential mishits as well so I don't think there's anything you can do about it it's just like another interesting like Nuance of this whole thing and then the last thing is like it.

Changes the way the bot the ball leaves the paddle like the angle really just having a so I don't know if I'd agree with that like what well that that's deflection right isn't that what you were explaining as deflection is deflection quickly it comes off of the paddle okay right so it.

Wouldn't change the angle necessarily at which it comes off the pattern no if the if the paddle has more give right like if I'm just if I'm swinging at a slight angle if it's more rigid it's more likely to go directly in that like directly with my swing path if there's more give it will come off at more of an angle.

Because the paddle phase basically envelops the ball sure I don't I don't think that's noticeable I don't think that the change in angle is noticeable at least it's not anything that I've ever noticed I'm hearing differently the site your sources homie uh well so it's because it's not my source but Kim on our team was talking to I think Lee.

Whitwell who is saying like there was a paddle she was playing against somebody uh with one of these paddles not a pro and not in tournament but just like in wreck and it was like it was insane the way the ball was coming off the paddle because of the like insane amount of deflection or possibly dwell time in this case.

I think it definitely changes the way that the ball comes off the paddle but I haven't noticed any difference in Direction so but it also could be a different paddle that I've never never seen so it's not something that I've seen But I it's plausible why do you think dwell time and deflection is all of a.

Sudden like a thing because I think it's the the most recent way of getting in advantage through your equipment yeah um last year it was all about RZ and spin right and still is important in his RZ the metric that you test for yeah I don't know what channel is the surface roughness I think so yeah yeah yes.

Whatever metric they're like using for this whole thing right if that that's like the 40 when you take the six point to the paddle and then you average them out it needs to be below 40. correct I believe in RZ we're gonna have a lot of fact checks on this episode but dude this is the thing it's like okay so everybody else who's listening to this.

Knows much less than we do I mean of course there are exceptions but like if we're on the front lines of this I'm talking to these people I'm talking these manufacturers I'm talking to people at USA pickleball and I still don't know you're playing on the tours and you still don't know isn't that like uh an issue I mean imagine if you're.

Just a Rec player like I don't even know what the hell's going on yeah I mean that but I also don't think it necessarily affects an average person nearly as much right I'm trying to if I can get one percent more out of my paddle like that's huge where if you're if you're an amateur player just go go work on your hands like that's more.

Important I mean I should probably work on my hands too but it does I don't think it's it doesn't have the same impact at that level and you don't need to care about it as much like my dad uses one of those uh original carbon paddles one of the ones that was probably very illegal he's.

Like yeah I like it I'm like yeah I bet you do he's like yeah I can't really tell why but it feels great like I I bet it does meanwhile he's out here like just dicing up some four rows in Racine Wisconsin so but he's not playing any tournaments he's not uh he's not making any money off of it so it doesn't really matter to him yeah right.

But there's a lot of this stuff where you can get these advantages here advantages there and it could just make you a better wreck player and there's really just like no way to enforce that in a casual tournament or like league play or whatever no probably not but I mean you get to the point it's like I suppose.

It's like golf where if you're just going out and playing with your buddies you could go use illegal clubs yeah like your buddies might not might not like it but like what are they gonna do right it's the same idea yeah like if you're not playing actually competitively it's like who who really cares at that point yeah.

But I think there's certain paddle brands that stand out in these conversations I think one of the most recent is this like Legacy paddle that people are talking about um and I was playing with Grant bond in Mesa and he was using the Legacy battle when he hit a forehand it absolutely rocketed off the ball but he.

Did it if he didn't come over it right it was like long gone right like it would leave the fencing but when he did hit it right it was like I'm just gonna stick out my paddle and hope for the best yeah I've been playing against some of those recently and it's Grant was actually here in Austin a couple weeks.

Ago and you know love Grant he's not exactly like the hardest hitter right he's not the hardest neither am I there's nothing wrong he was when he was using this paddle that guy was was bagging me from the Baseline yeah like he would just take a third shot he.

Actually it was kind of funny he murdered a ball with the Legacy paddle and like I didn't even think about getting out of the way of it and it just got like caught right in my in my between my arm and my I didn't move in inch because I I couldn't like yeah that thing is that thing is just a rocket ship it.

Really is yeah and I don't know I don't know exactly what the deal is um but that thing is that thing is poppier than anything I've ever seen yeah uh okay well speaking of uh new paddles teed up a uh listener question all right uh and I'm working on my uh my Segway says perfect Segway.

I'm gonna play it into the mic and if we have to add it after we will um but uh and this is so if you do have listener questions DM us on Instagram just do like a little voice recording or or send us a message or whatever or even just ask it like on the YouTube channel and we'll try to get to them but this.

One you guys might uh recognize this voice we've talked about this person uh who still is remaining Anonymous at this point but uh we'll play the we'll play it um with uh Gertrude Bart and Walter um to tell me it's pronounced Pro XR and I.

Told them it's pronounced proxer could you clear that up for everybody because I really want to stick it in Walter's face because he got he he wouldn't drop it so just let you proxer or Pro XR fixing Gotta Love Gotta Love tropical yep gotta love it uh I think tropical I think Gertrude is is right.

Um I actually don't know for sure I'll go I'll go talk to my my contacts over there I should probably figure that out at some point what it's how it's actually pronounced yeah but um yeah my guess would be Pro XR but you you definitely could be right but you do have a new paddle I do have a new paddle that much is true and.

I believe it's uh available for sale now it is available for sale Thomas as of today it's on pickleball Central exclusively okay uh it's on pickleball Central and and pickleball Pro um yeah this has been a it's been a long time coming we've been we've been.

Working on it since I I signed and back in uh back in October yeah end of October and we we turned it around really quickly so I'm stoked I'm uh it's cool to already see some of these out and about and uh I think it looks sexy looks pretty Sleek you like that blue color that's kind of been a theme for you over the past couple years is that.

Like you're that's like your uh go-to I like the blue film you got it it's the brand can you buy it in other variations color variations right now no not right now right now this is a this is this is it 14 millimeter this um but I think we're working on uh we're working on other options as well the nice part.

About working with uh with Pro XR is is we uh we finish up one project and it's like all right what's next let's let's get working let's let's create a new some new stuff so it's the the job is never Is Never Done especially in in something like paddles where every day there's a new innovation and there yeah we're already already looking at what is.

Uh how to make it even better so well when they came onto the scene their whole thing was like the different um handle and there was some sort of I don't know benefit to to that but now they're kind of doing more of the traditional looking uh paddles kind of following the the wave yeah so they're.

They they have handled technology that they've taken over from from baseball which is basically like a a an angled handle so that way when you're swing through your your hand doesn't actually like come off the paddle it doesn't when you are rotating your wrist through the ball whether that's a a a uh a racket or a baseball bat there's some.

Interaction between your hand and the a standard grip that basically um results in inefficiency okay right your hand doesn't rotate perfectly efficiently over the over the the grip and they've taken that technology from from baseball to to pickleball um for me I'm using a a standard grip.

Because I think that they they realize that this is something that's a little bit different right people might look at that and just instinctively be like I don't know I don't want to try it because it's different right even though there is value to it you have to be you're selling to the type of person that's willing to take.

That risk and not everybody is even if it could help their game for me I'm not utilizing the handle because I have very extreme um grip changes where in the course of a point I'll change my grip yeah 180 degrees and so for me that results wait explain that so for me I use semi-western at the Baseline as soon as.

I'm inside the Baseline I go Continental like how do you that's what I do so I'm semi-western at the Baseline I change the Continental at the net but you're forgetting about the tomahawk where you change it over so except for like the score no no no so this is this is if you're watching this is semi-western it's.

Basically like if you set your paddle on the ground and you pick it up by placing your hand directly on top of it okay that's semi-western yeah Continental is that shake hands right and then when I'm up at the kitchen and somebody hits a floating ball to my backhand I'll change the grip over the other way.

To hit this oh oh oh yeah you and DJ love that oh yeah and Jeff Warnick yeah yeah he's he does everything differently he's got nothing normal uh I am seeing that Tomahawk more and and more who else have you seen it from Mostly you and DJ but every once in a while you catch a glimpse of somebody pulling it pulling it off.

Um and then people see it in like on Instagram and stuff and then they want to try it in person and um it's interesting so that's the shot that everybody is going to use to hit high back ends when when pickleball is a solved game if the ball is if you have time and the ball is above your we'll say.

We'll say chest ball is above your chest everybody is going to be hitting that shot five years from now and here's why but how do you how do you know how do you change your grip that fast I mean yeah you have to you have to identify it and get used to it you should be anticipating it almost not necessarily I use it most of the time well I use it.

When I have time right and a lot of times that means somebody is floated a third shot dropped to me and I have time to adjust or we're in a hands exchange and they pop something up and it's over to my backhand side I'll flip it over yeah but here's here's the number one reason why you should be tomahawking all right.

If you guys if I'm using a continental grip right my hand is in front of the grip right and and this is this will be a social clip so you'll have to see this my hand is basically in front of the grip so if I'm making it a straight line here my paddle is even with this other hand but then when I switch over the grip.

Only by switching over the grip and not moving now my paddle is four or five inches further what could you do with four or five inches of of reach additional inches yeah right additional inches are great um but so when that ball is coming and floating to you.

Not only can you snap your wrist more effectively but you also are able to catch that ball further into the kitchen right and that's the number one reason for using that Tomahawk okay it's all right anyway I'm passionate about it Facebook my Tomahawk kind of sucks right now yeah but I'm working on it we'll work on it it's additional reach.

Facebook's gonna love that um little excerpt there that's uh right up their alley um all right we got another one for you this one's from uh memes of pickleball question for Zane uh and we won't read the caveat uh during MLP would it be a stretch to say that Matt could have done better playing with Lucy as a team.

Cleans men's uh partner rather than Matt playing with you and was there any anti-harassment training initiated by Team Clean ownership following his bullying of you in Mesa honestly Thomas I think Matt probably could have done better playing with you um so Lucy for sure yeah I didn't have my my best uh MLP uh back in in Mesa but.

We'll we'll come out strong next time or another next time but um so follow up and on that note what adjustments would you two feel like you have to make in Partnership like to improve when you're playing in in Daytona um other than just putting on a hat because hat Zane don't play yeah I mean I think the Hat's a big a big key of.

Course but you know I think I think all of our matches we lost like 22 to 20. so it really was only a handful of of points here and there which which sucks but um I don't know I didn't think Matt was too mean to me I didn't cry for that like I only cried for a couple minutes so yeah it was fine so actually I I genuinely I.

Actually didn't understand that Meme like um and and normally the memes are pretty explain though I I don't think I had I had seen it there was like a you know that clip from the Super Bowl where one of the guys was crying there's some guy crying in the Super Bowl and I don't know why but the meme.

Oh yeah yeah along the lines of life it was one of the coaches Zane Zane after Matt Wright with with uh at MLP yeah unless he was like really eye rolling the crap out of me when I wasn't looking and I didn't see it like I don't think there was any any any issue do you go back and watch most your matches I probably should but I don't do you like.

What percentage you say you you watch back zero really I I don't watch too much no I don't but I should this is like how you don't um you don't reply to comments and stuff on social media correct some things you got to do okay post and ghost as your brand manager um you can make some some slight tweaks.

Here posts and ghosts man one of the uh tips I would give you as your brand manager is hat Zane plays okay people were big fans of that people were saying you looked buff you look jacked in the uh in live stream comments that's I it's because I am jacked um so you know what's funny is I.

Actually I noticed that for some reason the Hat I feel like makes my neck look a lot thicker I don't know whatever shirt you were wearing so watch watch back and figure out what shirt that was wear that again so you think I'm ripped you said Zayn got the PPA makeover all right I don't know what that I don't.

Know what that means it's good for the brand but good play into it we got people we got people talking about it Zane's been pumping on two and a half pound dumbbells that's that was one of the comments damn right yeah it's paying off people can tell there are a lot of good comments on here yeah Zayn dude the live streams they're so.

Much fun to get into the mix Zane vertil was one of them yeah it makes me look taller apparently see yeah taller more jacked um looked like you put on some weight he looks good double exclamation mark oh wow I'm gonna have to DM that person yeah um Zane nav hattil is here to stay yep.

There was another uh funny meme and uh oh you were brimming with confidence uh I didn't even I didn't even catch this right good dad jokes look at that dad joke I think it's here to stay bring it back to that yeah there's a pro XR at it was a pro a proxer hat I I think it's called Pro XR but okay again.

We'll we'll confirm with we'll confirm with them I don't know I kind of like boxer proxar makes me say too many uh syllables more work I'll talk to my people yeah all right I gotta I got a random question for you I love this I like where this is going.

So in pickleball I've met some very interesting people uh who are like who are like the top like one or two people you've met through pickleball that you just never thought you'd be in a room with or maybe you've like developed a friendship with or you've had like an interesting uh scenario or encounter with I'm going to tell you about my very.

First friend that I made in Austin okay you know skender no he actually works over uh with the Bainbridge pickleball Club at the founders oh I do yeah I was uh emailing with a skender yeah yeah yeah right right how how do you not remember some guy named skender it's just email I remember now do you remember now so anyway.

Jenny and I moved here on July 1st and it's July 2nd we don't have a bed we don't have anything in our apartment we have no food I'm liming down the street to go get some tacos you're a lime guy Birds or strictly bird no birded here anyway I'm I'm liming because lime is the superior uh sure whatever scooter to go.

Get tacos and this guy I'm stopped at a red light this guy just yells out at me he goes you're Zayn and I'm like I'm like yeah yeah and then so it says like yeah he's like you don't know me like no I don't he's like I'm skender yeah okay yeah right and so it's just like how many how many more statements are.

You gonna make or like is there a question like what's going on I'm just trying to get my tacos homie and he's like um so he stops he's like well what are you doing in Austin I was like I I just moved here he's like oh well I'll hit you up I was like okay uh how are you planning on doing that like you don't have my number you got nothing.

It says like uh all right shoot me an Instagram message and I don't think anything of it I go get my tacos big fan of Velvet Taco um you don't like it another disagreement yeah no too much going on in those tacos oh spare me it's drunk food.

I I didn't say I wasn't drunk but uh so a couple days go by and I get this Instagram message from somebody that I have like one mutual um it's a message request too I've never messaged with this person before it's from some ladies account and and I read through it and skender had messaged me.

On Instagram through his friend's account because he doesn't have Instagram okay and he shot me his number yeah and we've been hanging out ever since yeah exactly we're homies now okay uh so yeah he's he's a super interesting guy um yeah he he he works in pickleball here in in Austin very good go with the.

Flow guy uh good buddies with with Darius from over at that the founders Club yep yep and um yeah so he's one of the more interesting people got it what about yourself um it's a good question I mean like okay so playing pickleball with Kevin Durant was pretty like absurd um.

A lot of people kind of in that like Hollywood world right who are gravitating toward pickle um but uh yeah I would say I'm just friends with the most random assortment of people from like young to old right like it's broadened my relationships age-wise my like the age.

Of my average friend has just like skyrocketed yeah the mean age of your friends yes before and after pickleball yeah has probably changed it's been two years yeah yeah definitely yeah same do people so skender just like saw you in the street does that have how often does that happen to you where people see you when.

You're just like out and about and uh they recognize you does that happen to you is it happening more it's definitely happening more yeah um I'd say maybe once a week there's some some random person that I that I that's pretty good yeah say hey and if if one person is actually like.

Communicating with you that they know you or you know there's probably you know a handful more that are like seeing you and going like oh there's Zayn but like not saying anything to you you know you don't really yeah maybe I I hadn't really thought of that but it is cool it's a testament to pickleball where yeah you know some of us are you know.

I'm not I'm not a Ben or an Anna Lee or a Tyson McMuffin so I'm sure those guys are getting stopped a whole lot more than than once a week if that's the case yeah probably Tyson a lot oh yeah for sure that mullet do you know he's going to be sponsored by McDonald's actually yeah they're gonna make him a.

Bacon egg and cheese MC yeah they coffin like like Otis um whatever that like uh you know like Bakery brand do like a an actual muffin like a Tyson McMuffin but then it has to be like McDonald's because the mick what do you think if McDonald's was to make Tyson a signature sandwich yeah what do you like the Travis Scott thing is that.

A thing yeah I didn't know that yeah and I think maybe like Bieber did one what do you think would be on a Tyson McGuffin McMuffin a lot of protein um yeah it'd be like uh bacon and uh and like the sausage patty should be like the double up and I think I think there's got to be some like signature sauce yes it's Gotta.

Be spicy It's gotta be something to make your your mustache sweat like yeah it's Gotta Be It's gotta be enough enough to make you you sweat your mullet yeah I think so okay so so I think we're going with with biscuit with hot sauce bacon and sausage I like it.

That's that's the McGuffin signature all right anyway how do we get here I don't know I asked you uh who are the most interesting people you've met and then you know who you met so is there anybody else on that list besides uh skender by the way great uh great name again great name yeah I've got another.

Nickname bent a couple of you have a Zayn is very marketable name it's a different name it's a different name what's your middle name Dennis it's my dad's name yeah really switching that out we go from Zane to Dennis yeah but Thomas is dope too yeah what's my you know my middle name is Wagner I kind of like a little different.

Yeah I like that finish Wagner's more of a last name yeah yeah like one of my best friends growing up was uh last name Wagner hmm so let's see I'm sure there's a million very interesting people I mean I know I know I've met a bunch of people it's tough to think of off the top of my off the top of my head.

Um yeah I'd say being looped into some of that Hollywood group and and other yeah why am I leading a circle right now like why am I in this text chain for sure it's definite uh imposters yeah you sure you want to talk to me I can't believe I have this person's.

Number yeah right yeah yeah right yeah so do you do you mark all your pickleball contacts with like pickleball or pickle yep they are all even even people like altoth and Andrea and sinkola like my best buddies so let's do this this is what we're doing right they're all marked PB altaf Merchants so pull up all your PB contacts oh God and.

We'll read the most interesting ones we'll go um dude we're gonna this is gonna we'll go contact for contact okay um oh boy so we gotta try pickleball there you go um let's see you just I'll I'll go through this Doug Ellen the creator of Entourage everybody.

Knows him he's a guy in the world now I've got David Comey Arnold David Comey the attorney that rocks Jamie Jamie he's on buses all over the Austin area really yeah he's the attorney that rocks who's uh who's the other big attorney Thomas Henry he's like I don't know yeah Thomas Henry's trash crash.

Should we get an affiliate with uh David Comey um I don't know I don't know I don't know like what's a what's a typical attorney fee it's at least like 10 grand Bernie came to Austin and he was on A Series of Poker he was okay he was a top finisher he came to Austin we did some lessons.

Together yeah I've got altoff in here which by the way every once in a while I get a text from altof and we haven't talked in Forever they're always phenomenal one time he was like I'm getting uh I'm getting engaged tonight I was like that's awesome yeah we did we did a little article in.

The newsletter because he took he took her to uh Rascal Flatts concert and like yeah I think they were gonna propose like he was going to propose like mid concert maybe he did I don't remember like how it worked but he did it was a it was a UBS sort of Private Client event and uh and yeah they played they played this song that's kind of like.

Their song I have to evolved off some props because before that no I was talking about how he was going to propose to her on singsang court at the U.S open I was like homie dude homie listen uh if you wanted to say yes don't do that and so he listened I guess but I got Danny werfel's number I'm looking at.

His right now yep cool dude Heisman Trophy Donald football player yeah Giants uh Packers homie come on the Giants for a little bit I don't know if he was on the Giants he's known as the Packers receiver um but he's he's actually a Texas and Wisconsin guy and he's putting together a uh a uh a golf and pickleball event.

Which hopefully I haven't gotten my invite yet so uh we'll see if we can see we can swing that one find some space for you I think my Instagram DMS are way more interesting I would think so all right I was sitting um I was sitting in my house like with my my dad my dad's house in Michigan with.

Like some of his buddies and I get a DM and I'm just sitting there and I go uh guys I just got a DM from Jamie Foxx and it was a voice recording of Jamie talking about like how he's gonna beat Larry Fitzgerald I'm like why is Jamie Foxx dming me a voice recording right now and again it's not me right it's the dink account but still pretty uh pretty.

Funny that's still pretty sweet it is super cool to see how involved Jamie is in his pickleball brand like that's really awesome yeah yeah yeah yeah it's very very cool to see it seems really passionate another thing yeah the best paddle pretty absurd yeah yeah um I wish he had partnered with me on.

That it would have been a good one I know I'm sure you can find people way better yeah you can I'm still I'm still waiting for an invite from a better podcast so yeah but although um all right well I think we've been going for just over an hour so this is um we're like perfect timing but another.

Episode of picklepot okay agreement with the listeners comment on the YouTube leave a review we're going to send a poll over to somebody who does subscribe to the YouTube channel um and uh yeah DM us your like questions comments uh and maybe eventually how about this like whoever's the most.

Consistent commenter in whoever consistently interacts with us in our like podcast content we're gonna bring you on oh wow on a show on an episode and we're gonna talk to you and feel free to uh to keep fact checking us too it really helps the engagement no I think we should just keep saying wrong stuff so people comment purely.

Conjecture always um you know take everything we say with a grain of salt and do not but do microwave your paddles somebody's actually going to do that yeah I think somebody's actually gonna do it videotape it if you do if somebody does happen to actually do that which we're not recommending yeah we're not.

Recommending but maybe we are anyway that seems like a good ending point yeah that's probably
The hottest new pickleball debate is pushing paddle testing to its legal limits. Zane and Thomas go in on the most creative ways to skirt pickleball rules. Pro serves seem to be rising higher and higher, is the drop serve the only feasible solution? We want you to get involved. Show some love in the comments and one listener will make a guest appearance on the pod.

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Shea Underwood – Hand is Part of the Paddle />Shea Underwood Screen Plays />
Show Notes:
0:00 Intro
1:30 Corrections from last week
5:00 Creative Exploitation of the rules
12:11 Pesa’s alleged carry
15:51 Shea Underwood’s screenplay
18:18 Pro serves creeping higher and higher
22:08 Steve Paranto’s push for the drop serve
28:34 Dwell time could be the last straw for paddle testing
36:55 Deflection level can change sound and shot angle
43:47 Listener questions
54:18 Hat Zane plays
56:17 Show me all your PB contacts