And so if the ratings were working and if tournaments were Fair we would see way more than 20 percent of matches going to three games right now it's about 18 of all matches in a trip oh really three games that's upsetting we have to create better amateur experiences if we want players to keep coming back.

well hello welcome to the future of pickleball this is the podcast where we talk to the movers and shakers people that are making the sport go to the next level we're all familiar with how hot pickleball is right now now we're going to talk about where it's going my guest today is Jill Braverman she's the CEO of.

Duper that is the dynamic Universal pickleball rating system it has taken over the sport of pickleball and will do nothing but explode let's welcome Jill Braverman hi Jill thank you Paul I'm thrilled to be here I didn't know I was a mover and Shaker so this is all news to me well I uh I know who the movers and shakers are and you've you're.

Fitting the Bill thank you one of the things that's been so interesting for me I've been around the game of pickleball for a pretty long time now it started with my generation and it's moved to your generation and now even younger it's kind of cool to talk to the people that are are deeply involved involved with where it's going would you just.

Give our viewers a little bit of an update everybody doesn't know what duper is and how it works would you kind of Enlighten us absolutely duper's Dynamic Universal pickleball rating as you said yourself it rates every player regardless of their skill age gender or geography on the exact same two through eight scale so for the amateurs your.

Rating Falls between two and five and then the scale expands above five to eight for the pros I believe Ben John's number one in the world right now by duper and many other ranking systems is about a 7.3 duper now what will Ben have to do to get to an eight to be determined right a little bit a little bit of room there for inflation.

In the future now one of the things that I know from the time I've heard about duper and saw it starting to come out I I became a a duper app player immediately and I initially was a little startled with well there's no room for old guys there's no room for women there are not I shouldn't say room there's no certain.

Difference what was the idea of having a singular rating system that's a great question I get asked that concept or that question quite a bit around universality is what we say so duper is a universal scale yeah so why aren't all ratings and ranking systems Universal well first it's just really hard to do and we were able to quote you know crack.

That code and our algorithm is able to rate all players accurately across the player population so my background is I spent three years running the commercial department at a company called Universal tennis formerly known as utr the utr rating is the de facto standard in college recruiting for tennis and now really a Mainstay even in the adult.

Space and especially in the junior space and that is also a universal skill that rates players between 1 and 16. so if you don't have to have a a delineation between male and female old and young all of a sudden you get to remove brown brackets there's 65 to 75 brackets in an average amateur tournament 50 plus 55 60 65 3035.

Running a tournament like that is is chaos number one and number two expecting to be able to find a partner that matches your perfect bracket plus your your perfect age and then you also have to segment by gender it's a really hard to find partners for tournaments so what duper does is on top of being the most accurate rating there's tools and.

Technologies on top of it to run events to participate in leagues making finding Partners easy I mean imagine running a tournament no double elimination that's killing our sport we've got to get out of double elimination and now you're playing in a tournament you know exactly how many matches you're going to get you know exactly when you're gonna play.

You're guaranteed at least four and by the way finding a partner is easy because you can play with a 30 year old a 50 year old a male or a female because the rating actually works and if the rating works we don't need all this delineation and lines of demarcation between age and gender cool and I I can testify to the fact that it rates.

Because I know I have a uptr rating and my duper ratings a little lower but I'm not the youngest person on the court but it's been shocking to me how accurately when I meet somebody and I'm playing with some 19 and 20 year olds that go boy the old boy can hang exactly but it really is demonstrated in the duper ratings exactly so I hear all the.

Time from um individuals who don't quite understand the universal nature of the algorithm that how could a 3-5 senior female be the same as a 3 5 19 year old male and so what I would say to that is the algorithm literally doesn't see your gender or your age it's just looking at your results and your performance so a.

Three five utpr female in duper could be a little bit lower could be a little bit higher and also something to note too is if you're a little bit older you might be more consistent a little bit younger yeah you might be hitting it a little bit harder but you miss more the algorithm takes all of that into account based on your performance that's how a.

Three five female senior could be the same as a three five nineteen-year-old males just looking at your performance and say that as a male 19 year old three five you get your butt handed to you by the 35 55 year old female well guess what the duper is going to go down so it's a self-correcting mechanism and and I'll testify to you that that's exactly.

What I've experienced in the time that I've seen it I've been encouraging I live in Surprise Arizona and I've been encouraging more and more of our players to sign up on Cooper because it really eliminates the sandbagging issues that we've had so I think you guys are really on the right track with that well thank you so much it really blows my mind.

Because we're a data and analytics company and we're constantly looking at uh retroactive Tournament results and so if the ratings were working and if tournaments were Fair we would see way more than 20 percent of matches going to three games right now it's about 18 percent of all matches in a trip oh really three games that's upsetting we.

Have to create better amateur experiences and bet frankly better professional experiences which we can talk about in a little bit as well if we want players to keep coming back there's only 300 000. tournament Players players five million out of what I think is really closer to 8 million when you look at Google.

Searches YouTube views on videos when you look at retail sales ball sales paddle sales right there's a new number every week so even if we split the difference and let's say it's 6 million right we have to figure out a way to deliver amazing first time competitive experiences to the recreational players who are new to the sport and if we can't.

Do that we're not going to be we're going to be just like tennis delivering you know an experience that ends up with 66 of first-time participants not returning back to the sport we cannot be that for a pickleball wow very nice very nice now in the in the evolution of duper and its connection with MLP and now I understand.

You guys are how are you connected could you explain to us exactly what the MLP uh duper connection is absolutely uh I like to say my sister company so Major League pickleball shares co-ownership and the exact same Sounder Steve Kuhn a brilliant man I think the the true Visionary and innovator of of pickleball is Steve so Steve started both Major.

League pickleball and duper within about a year of each other and so it is is there um with with things that we see from MLP as an example with the Turner or with their league format yes and and a heavy emphasis on rally scoring how does that play into duper or does it play into duper no it absolutely does so right now.

Duper teams is a concept that's launching across the country and it's the MLP format that we call ml play and that is coming now to the amateur game how cool is that that as an amateur you now could have the experience that the pros have and to play on two male two female teams for a chance to make it to a national team championship that we're.

Announcing this week um so there's a lot of crossover and uh uh lots of similarities between our entities in that regard with the format and then also the adoption of rally scoring uh personally as a player I love rally scoring as someone who's watching it I love rally scoring it is really hard to do and bring big media deals to.

Pickleball with side out scoring zero zero two zero zero one the score is zero zero for 20 minutes maybe 10 minutes and as a viewer you turn it on five minutes later you're still at zero zero it's hard I think for a viewer to form a connection with what's transpiring when it's frankly that slow and it's really hard for for a.

Meteorites deal if you can't say that within 30 or 45 minutes you know that the match is going to be complete from a betting and a gambling angle and from a duper predictiveness angle rally scoring helps a lot as well because if you have a match that goes 811 and it's side out scoring I don't really know how many points Was Won by either player because.

They're side out scoring but in rally scoring I know exactly how many so for me looking at it as a viewership perspective a player perspective a gambling perspective and a media rights perspective rally scoring is the future now I'm in the pickleball space I travel all over the country I meet a lot of people.

I'm I'm out there constantly asking the question I played my first rally scoring match at at Newport Beach about two months ago two and a half months ago with a guy named Steve Kuhn yes that was the first time I'd ever played it what did you think of it I it was it was so clean and simple and what it actually it I think it would help my game personally.

Because it puts a huge emphasis on don't make unforced errors right but it was interesting because now as I travel and I'm I'm talking to people about this oh well we don't want that change and I say well have you played Rally's going well no I haven't how do you how would you suggest to the people watching this it's their Club level or at their group level.

What would you recommend to them well I I think anything new is difficult the future is never easy first and foremost but it is a future worth embracing it is worth trying I have really yet to find someone who has tried it personally and said I just don't like this yes it moves fast and that is something that requires.

A hair of getting used to and I believe it enables the comeback it does and I think that makes for some pretty entertaining uh pickleball yeah no I agree and so I think what we deal with here on this podcast is about where the Sport's going everybody knows that pickleball is hot now we're at the at 2022 we're at the U.S Nationals it's an.

Amazing venue um but we need to be exploring who are the leaders of the pack and where is it going well I think you brought up a really good point there we have to think about the future and something that I should have mentioned and I didn't why I also love rally scoring is its simplicity so if we're going to build a.

Bridge between the super competitive everyday player and the recreational player playing at the public park that's not going to be done through side out scoring I can't tell you how many of my my friends who play recreational are too scared to play in a league are too scared to play in a tournament because they can't conceptualize the.

Scoring they're nervous am I on the right side am I on the wrong side what's the third number mean so we want to be able to bring this to the masses we have to be able to bring this to the masses but in an organized fashion and the scoring is at the heart of that it is absolutely at the heart of that so now as people are watching this and they may.

Be hearing about rally scoring in detail for the first time how can they get involved how what should they do to experience this or get involved with duper well what's interesting is we talk about the future on this podcast which I love I'm I'm not and this isn't really answering your question I apologize but I'm not certain.

That the rally scoring in its existing format is actually the correct version of rally scoring and Steve and I go back and forth on this uh every couple weeks and to his credit he's always open to hearing an idea that betters the sport makes the sport more simple engages more people so I have a concept where I'd love to see the the momentum of the.

Server carried over actually so with the current MLP structure and I believe that exact format has been submitted by the USA pickleball Rules Committee for approval I think it might have been approved I'm not 100 certain but what I would love to see is if you win on the do side or the right side and you served you would carry that over so you're.

Always receiving from the same position which I think is the tougher part of side out scoring is what from where am I starting from where am I receiving yeah but you get to carry the momentum of your serve over which I think is critical because then uh a receiver will see a different serve right now if you watch MLP you're always going to see the.

Same serve from the same player the entire time so I think that's a really minor modification that could add a little bit more Intrigue into uh into rally scoring I'm sorry that didn't answer your question so but then to go back to my question how does so for for someone that's watching this in Minneapolis that goes I don't I don't.

Know exactly what's going on I don't know what to do but it sounds intriguing or it sounds like it would be fun to find out what would you recommend that they do to uh to uh to get involved should they join duper as a beginning Point that's a great question so first off if you're in Minneapolis I'd say go join a lifetime we recently became the.

Official and exclusive rating of Lifetime clubs they already perfect they're investing over a half a bill talk about a mover and a Shaker baramakrati the CEO of Lifetime time such a Visionary has is in the process of building over 500 courts would have invested over half a billion dollars into actual Court creation which I think.

You want to talk about the features the absolute if not the most critical top three critical uh items that needs to happen right now for our sport to continue to reach 40 million by 2030 which is our MLP in duper and I think really the collective community's goal so if you're in lifetime and you can't join uh I'm.

Sorry if you're in Minneapolis and you can't join a lifetime then I would say you can absolutely still download the duper app we have MLP style leagues coming to to all of Missouri right now in Minneapolis and you can download the app it's totally free anyone can have a rating and you can even post scores against other unrated players and still.

The logic of the algorithm is smart enough to give you a rating very cool very cool indeed you know something that I like when I get an opportunity you came from a very extensive tennis background you've been an athlete your whole life when you're exposed to pickleball tell me about what that process was.

Um love at first sight absolute and utter addiction uh very fortunate that at my home Club in Newport Beach they had a pickleball net so my sister and I two recovering tennis players would go out and basically play tennis on a pickleball court but it gave us such joy and such renewed love for a rocket sport yeah that we otherwise.

Would not have had because we were burned out from playing competitive Collegiate tennis so when I hear tennis players say you know this is a threat pickleball is a threat to tennis I say I actually think it is the gateway to all racket Sports it's the it's the gateway drug to racket Sports I think kids who start in pickleball they have so much.

More instant gratification literal serotonin and endorphin release when the paddle touches the ball that we should get them into pickleball and that's a bridge to tennis where you're not getting that instant gratification because it's more difficult even with red ball and and all the different colored balls and the.

Smaller Court formats the perfect starting point for these kids could and should be really pickleball so now when we we get to the point where we're talking about going from let's say six six and a half million players to 40 million players by 2030. what are the two or three things that you think the sport and the overall pickleball.

Community have to do to enable that to happen yeah I think it's three things I think a universal rating and I can talk about talk about why I think that's absolutely critical in a second um better technology tools and Technologies which includes far superior formats formats for.

Tournament tournaments formats for leagues formats for ladders and three ultimately Court creation a lot of people don't know this um but how come there's so many tennis courts does anyone do you ever wonder that you drive past a city lots of empty public city tennis courts well the governing body of tennis very strong.

Very smart uh many years ago they lobbied in DC for the creation of tennis courts so something Steve Kuhn and I talked quite a bit about and they were successful obviously look at all the courts so something Steve and I talk a considerable amount about is the creation of a pickleball pack ppac to go and do the exact same thing for the.

Creation of chords if we're gonna have 40 million players by 2030 which is completely realistic just looking at the current and projected growth rates of the sport how many thousands is that per existing pickleball court the math is is painful right so that needs to be really front and center in the governing body's mind.

Mlp's mind duper uh PPA app we really need to come together and unify around this concept of Court creation or we're going to be or we're going to be delivering an experience for a first-time player who's waiting for a court for 45 minutes sure actually I'm looking forward I've got a I've got an interview that'll be done later in the.

Spring with a mayor in a pretty big sized city who ran on a pickleball platform and he won decisively and and it was his views I'm told are that he believes that his community will benefit from having the lead in the metro area that he's in um because of pickleball's prominence growth and expansion it's going to be.

Kind of fun to see how those things start to come together absolutely absolutely for having linking attitude the duper how duper can work into some of these other things Beyond simply a universal rating guide us absolutely so just the other day we saw the unification around the pro game of.

Pickleball so exciting between MLP PPA and the vibe tour something that the pickleball diehards in the community has been really hungry for peace unification and what we're going to see really soon hopefully within the next 24 hours there's a large announcement around an equivalent unification for the amateur game so when are we going to.

Hear this Jill hopefully within the next 24 hours a true unification around ratings formats software tools technology a really watershed moment for the amateur game and I think that uh the amateur game is hungry for that and needs that just as much so what else is is duper involved in right now powering other platforms so.

Other technology providers to make sure that if you're running a league on pickleball brackets or playing in a tournament on but you are going to have a fair and fun experience and frankly with more Innovative formats so we talk about double elimination being poisonous for the sport for both the pros and the.

Amateurs so how do we in you into the culture in the community for matches in four hours modified Compass draws staggered entry plan for pros Pros on the court till eight nine at night and 10 hours of Play That's not healthy so I think a rating is at the heart of a lot of that to be honest to create these these better formats better draw.

Components staggered entry playing like I said are all now going to be real options for both amateurs and Pros very cool very cool indeed well as we're starting to get to the time that we're getting near the end I've got a couple of really critical questions I've seen you play on the courts you bring a little theater to the game.

Of pickleball are we going to see more of that theater in the near future oh man Paul um I retired you don't go there um I retired to run duper I never wanted there to be a perceived conflict of interest between uh between playing and.

Then you know controlling the rating system that is used in the Major League pickleball draft that's used even with the PPA in some of their pro events and I think uh I was talking to Steve again our founder and he said you know don't don't stop anything that brings you Joy and For Better or Worse pickleball seems to bring me a lot a lot of Joy so I.

Would love to start playing well or maybe the exhibition circuit very nice very nice indeed well I want to say Jill thank you so much for this this is exactly the kind of information that we're looking for the the marketplace out there you guys are all seeing this sport growing in your local markets to realize the detail the plans the.

Organization that's being done in the background to help make this sport grow exponentially people like Jill Steve Kuhn we're so excited thank you very much for your time thank you Paul thank you
In the Future Of Pickleball Episode 003, host Paul Olson sits down with Major League Pickleball Chief Of Staff Jill Braverman to discuss the origins of DUPR, how DUPR is shaping the future of pickleball, and why DUPR is so important to the pickleball world at every single level of play.

DUPR, which rhymes with “super,” stands for Dynamic Universal Pickleball Rating and was developed in 2021 by Steve Kuhn, founder of Major League Pickleball (MLP). DUPR aims to be the most accurate, global rating system in pickleball.

Thank you for watching DUPR’s Secret To Shaping The Future Of Pickleball – Future Of Pickleball

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